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Subject:   Traveller-digest V1996 #210
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Traveller-digest           Thursday, 4 July 1996       Volume 1996 : Number 210

(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

         1. Visio for Deckplans
         2. Re: Marines vs. Army
         3. ship sizes
         4. ID4
         5. Re: Virus via E-Mail
         6. Missiles (was Re: Traveller Small Craft/Fighters)
         7. Foss Art: Two Thoughts
         8. Re: Uncle Jesse
         9. Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #201
        10. Re: Mathematics in Traveller
        11. Re: Mathematics in Traveller
        12. Re: Skills
        13. Re: Things on MY monitor
        14. Re: Death of Literacy
        15. Re: Death of Literacy
        16. TNE without the Virus
        17. Re: TNE without the Virus
        18. Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #206
        19. Re: Uncle Jesse

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: robert.brennan@isocor.ie
Date: 04 Jul 96 13:02:23 +0100
Subject: Visio for Deckplans

I am also interested in getting a Visio template for starships.
This is a great package!

I also use Corel Xara for more "freehand" computer art.  This is
a smart package that Corel had to purchase 'cos it's so much
quicker than Corel ;-)
Note that it doesn't have the vast scope of Corel (3d rendering or
whatever) but it does fit in less than 10MB of disk!
I think that Corel are charging about $100 for it (not sure of
stateside prices)
rgds
Rob



------------------------------

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 96 23:03:48 PST
Subject: Re: Marines vs. Army

Larry Hadley <lhadley@knet.knet.flemingc.on.ca> writes:

>    That's one thing I started thinking about. Does the Imperium even
>    have any kind of standing army, other than planetary services?

CT certainly implied that they did.

>    My guess would be no, given that the Imperium is very standoffish,
>    and intervenes only in extreme cases. After a "police action", the
>    impies would pull out leaving the cleanup to locals. There also
>    doesn't seem to be an Imperial Army in char-gen, Planetary Armies
>    are emphasized.
> 
>    OTOH, there's the question of wartime activities against "nations"
>    like the Zhodani, _some_ kind of Army support would be necessary.
>    Does the Imperium siphon off Army support from planetary garrisons
>    in time of need?

IIRC, the Imperial Army organization seems to resemble the US Army in
Pre-Civil War days. That is, units are raised in a specific area, and
you tend to stay with a unit the whole time you are in the Army. And
the Army units tended to double as state militia units. 

So you'd have things like the 57th Army (the Efate Eagles). Smaller
planets would have divisions or even companies. If a planet needs more
Army presence, but it isn't a revolt against Imperial authority, the
Imperial troops will serve as a cadre for training the local troops.


Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com	<--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com	<--last resort

------------------------------

From: robert.brennan@isocor.ie
Date: 04 Jul 96 13:36:51 +0100
Subject: ship sizes

talking about the relative sizes of Warships
David C.. Broussard wrote
> Circa 0 the ships will most likely be smaller.

I'm not really familiar with the FFS-style rules but in
HG (and I assume MT) terms this is not really the
case.  Most people seem to think that higher tech =
bigger ships, however if you play with HG/TCS long
enough you see that in fact higher tech ships become
smaller (just like calculators ;-).

This is because
1. power plants get more efficient (smaller/more power)
2. armour becomes more efficient (smaller)
3. weaponry becomes more efficient (smaller/less power)
4. any ship hit by a medium size spinal meson gun
is dead anyway (despite 2nd bridges etc). Thus it
makes sense to have as many targets for the enemy
as possible. 

In HG etc the optimum size for a capital ship is in the
40K to 20K range (depending on TL).  This is unfortunate
as many (in fact most) of the published designs are big
turkeys.

just my 0.02Cr
rob

------------------------------

From: Liam_McCauley@qsp.co.uk (Liam McCauley)
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 15:09:42 +0200
Subject: ID4

     Hi,
     
     As someone has already said (but just to hammer the point home), could 
     anyone discussing the plot to ID4 please put "SPOILER" in the header 
     (I'm not saying people have spoiled anything yet, I'm just being 
     pro-active, rather than whinging after the fact).
     
     I don't know what it's like in the rest of the world (that's "world" 
     in the sense of the World Cup, not the World Series ;-)), but we get 
     to see US films about 1-9 months after they're released over there.  
     TV is even worse, unless you're one of the 2% who have satelite (we 
     might be getting Space:AAB this autumn - whoopy fucking do!).
     
     Cheers,
     Liam

------------------------------

From: Tom Ellis <tellis@telerama.lm.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:24:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Virus via E-Mail

On Wed, 3 Jul 1996, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Tom Ellis <tellis@telerama.lm.com> writes:
> 
> > Speaking as a systems engineer, I for one resent being compared to a
> > slicon life form!
> 
> What? You'd rather be compared to that well known carbon life form, the
> middle manager?


Arrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!  I am NOT a manager!  I am just a high 
paid geek damn it!!! ;)

_______________________________________________________
Tom Ellis
tellis@telerama.lm.com
http://www.lm.com/~tellis/

"No! Do, or do not.  There is not try." Yoda
_______________________________________________________ 


------------------------------

From: Tom Ellis <tellis@telerama.lm.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:37:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Missiles (was Re: Traveller Small Craft/Fighters)

In my campaign, only military craft can use det-lasers, legally that is.  
Most civilian craft carry either kinetic kill missiles or frag missiles 
(blow up at about 2,000km from target km into a mass of very fast shrapnel)

I have lots of more exotic misslie types that pop up from time to time as 
well, including one that is designed to nullify defensive screens 
(expensive, military only) by temporarily disrupting them.

But enough, I want to leave some surprises for my player...and they are 
watching me....

_______________________________________________________
Tom Ellis
tellis@telerama.lm.com
http://www.lm.com/~tellis/

"No! Do, or do not.  There is not try." Yoda
_______________________________________________________ 


------------------------------

From: Les Howie <lhowie@novalis.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 10:33:47 -0300
Subject: Foss Art: Two Thoughts

1. I noticed that there is now a line of Foss collectable cards. Some of the
samples I saw looked very generic.  I find this sort of thing handy to
provide a visual reference for players -- "you see one of THESE..."

2. Suggestion to IG:  Somewhere early on in JTAS, if you have not done so in
the basic book, provide designs to go along with ALL the spaceships in your
illustrations.  This provides good examples of what the hull forms really
mean, and the more complete designs (with hull plans etc.) the better off we
are.

Les Howie
Senior Software Developer
NovaLIS Technologies
Halifax NS
lhowie@novalis.ca


------------------------------

From: Tom Ellis <tellis@telerama.lm.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:39:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Uncle Jesse

On Thu, 4 Jul 1996, Ron Dawson wrote:

> 
> > From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
> > Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 13:37:31 -0700
> > Subject: Re: Uncle Jesse
> > 
> > Jesse Helms would strip the basic protection of law from homosexuals.  He
> > believes that the United States is a Christian nation, and that no other
> > religion has any place here.  He advocated a nuclear first strike against
> > the Soviet Union.  He comes from a tobacco state, and has been the leader in
> > keeping this cancer causing killer on store shelves.
> 
> Isn't he also responsible for the latest anti-Cuban bill which has most of
> the US's trading partners PO'ed.  Some folks are still living and
> breathing the cold war.
> 
> 

This certainly is NOT the place for political discussions.  I will say 
as an American that it has less to do with living in the cold war than it 
does with silly US pride.  Cuba ceased to be a threat to us years ago.

Tom, asking please lets not go there...

------------------------------

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 96 00:53:21 PST
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #201

Derek Stanley <dstanley@direct.ca> writes:

> 	According to the tome "they began spewing high-speed data 
> transmissions which were picked up by several of Dulinor's ships as well 
> as Lucan's."  Okay let me revise what i've just said in light of this new 
> evidence.  Tight Beam Transmissions, only picked up by ships in a certian 
> area of the sky.  But again what are the odds given the vastness of the 
> radio spectrum that both Dulinor and Lucan's men were listening to the 
> same radio frequency?  If I though they were good I'd run out and start 
> buying lotto tickets now.  So how did Lucan's ships get initally 
> infected?  Passive EMS, it's the only plausable explanation.

That's how they got the *data*.

> I agree with you for 90% of the Virus infections out there, but it is 
> clearly evident from the passages in "Survival Margin" that the initial 
> infection of Lucan's and Dulinor's starships did not involve the standard 
> starship transponder unit.  They involved radio communication.

Sure. They intercepted the transmissions. They they tried to figure out
what it was. "Looks like some *very* sophisticated computer code, sir".
And when they couldn't figure it out quickly, *some* bright lad said
"Let's load it into an isolated system and see what it does." 

Either it managed to infect that system and hide until it was relinked,
or they figured out enough to go "Gee, this looks like it might be some
sort of code for running on a transponder unit". In which case they
take a spare out of stores, and let it look at the code, Shortly
thereafter both that transponder *and* the ship's transponder are
infected. Oops!


Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com	<--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com	<--last resort

------------------------------

From: Joe Walsh <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:31:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Mathematics in Traveller

On Thu, 4 Jul 1996, Ola Agren wrote:

> > Hopefully some kind soul will figure out the average score for "4D 
> > subtract the lowest die" so I won't have to. :P
> 
> Call me a kind soul :)

Ok.  "Oh, you kind soul, you!" :)

> 4D6, dropping lowest:
> 
>         Result  # (*)     %     % total
>          12     167     12.89    51.23
>          13     172     13.27    64.51
>          14     160     12.35    76.85

Ah, so I was off in my back-of-the-napkin calculation.  The two methods 
do yield similar averages.
Still, I'd use 2D6+6, since the minimum you'll get is 8, whereas with 
this method you can end up with lower scores.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)



------------------------------

From: Joe Walsh <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:38:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Mathematics in Traveller

On Thu, 4 Jul 1996, Ola Agren wrote:

> Sorry, I forgot this line:
> 
>         average = 12.2446

Ahh...I wasn't so far off after all.  I'd figured somewhere between 11 
and 12.  So, 2d6+6 /is/ the better method, all around.

Thanks!

- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)



------------------------------

From: Joe Walsh <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:40:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Skills

On Thu, 4 Jul 1996, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> Flame and lurking skills are either cascade skill under communications
> (1980s rpgs), or independent skills related to communications (1990s rpgs).
> Either can be role-played, of course, but in some situations a task roll
> should be made.  For example:
> 
>         To tie up opposing communications by starting a flame war:  Formidable
>         (flame)

Wow, lots of people on Usenet must have fairly high levels of Flame skill!

|-)

- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)



------------------------------

From: Joe Walsh <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:54:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Things on MY monitor

On Wed, 3 Jul 1996, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@tonic.pharm.Arizona.EDU> writes:
> 
> > Leonard Erickson says:
[both discuss the variety of toys they have on their monitors]


Geez.  You guys make me feel out of place.  :)  All I have on my monitor 
(a top-of-the-line Commodore 1802, if you really must know :)
is a plastic Rambo-style guy with a keyboard instead of a gun and a CPU 
as his backpack (part of a line of plastic computer-programmer toys put 
out many years ago, with punnish names - I think this one was called "The 
Exterminator," a reference to bug-finding in programs).  

The only other item is an old Dilbert comic (1992).  Wally, Dilbert, and 
some other guy are in the lunch room.  The other guy says, "When I 
started programming, we didn't have any of these sissy 'icons' and 
'windows.'  All we had were zeros and ones -- and sometimes we didn't 
even have ones.  I wrote an entire database program using only zeros.", 
to which Dilbert replies, "You had zeros?  We had to use the letter 'O'."

:)


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)



------------------------------

From: Joe Walsh <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:59:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Death of Literacy

On Thu, 4 Jul 1996, Wes Payne wrote:

[Wes' explanation of why literacy was lost so quickly - snipped]

> Therefore, literacy would be much harder to maintain in the aftermath of 
> a sudden, watershed event like the Collapse than it would have been 
> during an interregnum such as the Long Night.

Not only that, but it would be a hell of a job to bring literacy back.  
You'd have to import instructors from any worlds that had retained their 
literacy.  The RC has its work cut out for it.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)



------------------------------

From: Shalom Zaidfeld <yu145850@yorku.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 11:08:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Death of Literacy

On Thu, 4 Jul 1996, Joe Walsh wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Jul 1996, Wes Payne wrote:
> 
> [Wes' explanation of why literacy was lost so quickly - snipped]
> 
> 
> Not only that, but it would be a hell of a job to bring literacy back.  
> You'd have to import instructors from any worlds that had retained their 
> literacy.  The RC has its work cut out for it.

That why they have bootstraps missions for...  
  
     -Shalom Zaidfeld

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: yu145850@yorku.ca                            |      Anthropology Major
"One day, it will happen.. one day,                 |         York University
 one day it will all make sense"   -Bjork, Debut    |         Toronto, Canada
                      


------------------------------

From: Matthew Harelick <matth@interactive.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 11:19:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: TNE without the Virus

Hi: 

Is it possible to play TNE and not use the virus? What I mean by possible is
is it possible to use the system without too many modifications? 

Matthew


------------------------------

From: Shalom Zaidfeld <yu145850@yorku.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 11:25:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: TNE without the Virus

On Thu, 4 Jul 1996, Matthew Harelick wrote:

> Is it possible to play TNE and not use the virus? What I mean by possible is
> is it possible to use the system without too many modifications? 

do you mean rules-wise or background-wise?  
  
     -Shalom Zaidfeld

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: yu145850@yorku.ca                            |      Anthropology Major
"One day, it will happen.. one day,                 |         York University
 one day it will all make sense"   -Bjork, Debut    |         Toronto, Canada
                      


------------------------------

From: "Scott L. Kalkwarf" <toraka@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 11:04:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #206

> At 08:01 PM 7/2/96 -0400, James Lindsay wrote:
> 
> >Ok seriously, Senator Helms was one of the guys behind the CDA that
> >has everybody so angry down here.  He's well liked by certain groups,
> >like book-burners...and for some strange reason the voters of North
> >Carolina.
> 
> Actually, Sen. Bob ("I've never used a computer") Exon, Democrat from
> Nebraska, was the brains (?) behind the CDA.  Jesse is another sort
> entirely.....
> 
> Jesse Helms would strip the basic protection of law from homosexuals.  He
> believes that the United States is a Christian nation, and that no other
> religion has any place here.  He advocated a nuclear first strike against
> the Soviet Union.  He comes from a tobacco state, and has been the leader in
> keeping this cancer causing killer on store shelves.
> 
> When I first found out I had cancer, I put together a list of the people I'd
> like to take with me.  Jesse Helms was second on the list, right behind Rep.
> Bob Dornan, who is like Helms, only *worse*.
> 

What the heck is this doing on the Traveller Mail?

Mr. Lindsay, why are you so upset at the tobacco Industry to begin with. You smoked on 
your own account, neither Mr. Helms(who I dont care much for either), Mr. Exon( whome I 
also think is a butthead), or Mr. Dornan Held you down and forced you to smoke. Tobacco 
May Cause Cancer. I say May because if it did cause cancer then everyone who somkes it 
should then be inflicted with cancer. But that is not so other wise there would be a 
catastofic proportion of lung cancer in todays society.

Sir I just think you are tryin to put the blame on others for your own problems( done to 
often as a whole in todays society in my opinion). I am sorry that you have cancer sir, 
but I do not know how long you have been smoking. But there were warning labels on the 
sides of the cigaret packages and yet you still smoked them or continued to smoke them 
if you started before the warning.

Also If I were you I would retract your coments about Taking certain someones with you 
when you found out you had caner. As those are Viable threats and may be taken as such, 
wether or not you met them as such. Also as I stated before it is not there fault  that 
you have cancer.

I apollogise to the rest of the Thread subscribers for this but since a statement such 
as this was posted it deamed a responce.



                Scott Kalkwarf  
            Stuck in Nebraska with Sen. Bob "Ive never used a computer" Exon.

------------------------------

From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:13:48 -0800
Subject: Re: Uncle Jesse

On  4 Jul 96 at 9:39, Tom Ellis spewed:

> This certainly is NOT the place for political discussions.  I will say 
> as an American that it has less to do with living in the cold war than it 
> does with silly US pride.  Cuba ceased to be a threat to us years ago.
> 
> Tom, asking please lets not go there...
>

I must concur.  I have some very strong feelings about Jesse Helms, 
but this is not the place for outside political discussions.  Take it 
off the list, please...

Stu
 
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov, from "Foundation"
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This tagline brought to you by Big Ed's Taco Emporium, conveniently located next to
Bob's Pet Shop.
Stuart L. Dollar           sdollar@goodnet.com    

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #210
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